Quote of the day

What's The Plan??? (1.00 / 1)

Senator Weinberg's comment notwithstanding, what is the grand plan for next year?  There isn't even a bill introduced by Senator Weinberg much less anyone else for gay marriage.  Civil unions received 23 votes in the Senate.  Are there even 15 Senators willing to co-sponsor a gay marriage bill?  Why would Speaker Roberts bring it up unless the Senate acts?

Until you have horror stories about the deficiencies of civil unions that don't have anything to do with the continuing effects of DOMA, there is no lever to move anything.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 15:57:38 PM CST

Creed, happy holidays! (4.00 / 1)

You're a guy with very strong views, not always in agreement with mine - yet I must respect anyone with your passion.  Progressives need more people with your passion.  But Creed, can I plead with you on something?  I want to be gentle here, because I fear this could start a flame war and that's not my intention.  Creed, it is very hard to be a member of the LGBTI community and read postings that seem to have the theme, "Be happy for now with what you have."  OUCH!

If a person in the Anglo majority told that to an African-American or Latino/a-American, the African-American or Latino/a-American, too, would react with the same OUCH!

Please, the only thing I ask is, imagine how the "Be happy for now with what you have" tone emails strike those of us in minority communities.  It's painful to read or hear.

Now as far as a plan for achieving marriage equality within the next two years or less, we do have one.  But as much as we love, truly cherish, our Blue Jersey community, we're not going to discuss that plan on a public website.

Thank you so much. 

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by: Steven Goldstein, Garden State Equality chair @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 16:32:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

A ... PLAN?!?!? (0.00 / 0)

What a novel idea! Yes, I like the sound of this plan, even though the concept is strange and foreign to me.

And to think, there would have been no plan if no one had told us we didn't have one!

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by: JRB @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 17:02:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yo Creed (4.00 / 1)

Lighten up, just for a day - mmmmkay?

You are a very smart man, and I've learned a lot from your posts.  Your knowledge of Jersey politics will certainly be helpful in the upcoming elections.

But let Steve and the others who made it to Trenton today take a breath and sip some bubbly or bottled water - whatever.

It's not like these things go away.  It will be the same fight, whether it begins today or tomorrow.

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by: SmartyJones @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 16:51:41 PM CST

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Good Cop, Bad Cop (0.00 / 0)

I wasn't the one who posted the quote as a front page diary.  There is enough chaos going on in Trenton at this point that adding to it a currently unwinnable fight is just nuts.

I was inclined to let things go for a while (Merry Christmas, Happy Chunnakah and Happy Holidays to everyone too!), but as is usually the case the reasonable ones are followed by the bully with a 442 word screed starting off with the implication that I am a homophobe.  I truly resent it.  I have asked people to try to moderate this person, but it seems that I am the only one who gets moderated when I explain reality to the delusional one.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 20:17:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The open question is not what is the reality. (0.00 / 0)

The Governor answered that today.  The question is how do we change it.  And lamenting the current reality is not an acceptable answer.

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by: Scott Weingart @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 20:40:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Re (4.00 / 1)

First of all, you are most definitely NOT the only one who gets moderated.  The moderation here is pretty loose - we actually want people to participate - but when it happens, it is for a reason.  If I interpret your intention properly, the person you are talking about has been more heavily moderated than anyone in Blue Jersey history.

Second, I really doubt that you were "willing to let things go".  Your comment was the very first one made.  What you appear to mean is "I was willing to go so long as everyone shut up about it."  That isn't the same thing.

Third, it's true that you didn't post this as a diary - but it's rather vacuous for you to talk about that since you've never posted anything as a diary on this topic.  Instead, you haunt the comments of anyone who speaks up for marriage equality and make derivations of the same comments.

That brings me back to the point about participation.  We want everyone to participate.  But when a few people bloviate endlessly in rhetorical circles, it doesn't encourage participation at all.  In fact, it kills it.

Finally, I don't think you are a homophobe and I do understand that you want to pick our battles to make sure we maximize our chances of winning everything we can.  But you surely appear to be against even the chance that marriage equality might be discussed.  The fact that you seem compelled to point out every single shortcoming every single time it is discussed would also indicate that you aren't simply trying to get people to come up with a plan - if you were, I think there'd be a few suggestions in there somewhere.  Instead, it appears that you are simply trying to cut the legs out from under any discussion on the topic before it can get started.

Again, that doesn't mean you're a homophobe, but it does indicate your personal political preferences.  My grandpa taught me "Lead, follow or get out of the way" and right now you really look determined to be a speedbump more than anything else.

XT

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 20:56:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

And your Grandpa must've learned it from Thomas Paine n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Scott Weingart @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 21:57:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Nooooo (0.00 / 0)

I can only speak for myself, but I would hazard a guess that no one thinks you are a homophobe.

IMHO, you are a political realist and a political stratigist.

And to make our progressive "big tent" stuff work, we need all kinds of thoughts, ideas, strategies.

BTW, I am a "rip your lungs out" lawyer who can't stand the cop out of the SC decision.  Equal Protection is Equal Protection. The legislature copped out as well.

But tonight, I'm having a drink, and raising a glass to those who fought so hard.

Even if we didn't get all that we wanted.

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by: SmartyJones @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 21:25:10 PM CST

[ Parent ]

chaos & bullies (0.00 / 0)

http://www.bluejerse...

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by: rachael'sdad @ Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 07:27:44 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Why do you care if there is a plan or not? (4.00 / 1)

If you support marriage equality and think that there is something that the LGBTI and progressive community should be doing that they aren't to make marriage equality happen, then throw out some ideas.  I am sure that someone who knows how Trenton operates as much as you do probably has some insight into what needs to happen to achieve victory.

If you oppose marriage equality and agree with Paul Sarlo that civil unions is as far the state should go on this issue (or worse, agree with Gerry Cardinale), say so and leave it at that.

At this point in time, the only plan that would make any sense to me is to target those Democratic State Senators and State Assemblypersons who did not vote for civil unions and are supporting to some degree Cardinale's Equal Benefits effort for primary challenges and make an example out of them.  Even though he voted in favor of civil unions, I would add Paul Sarlo to that list of targets as well.

In addition, any Democratic challenger of a Republican incumbent State Senator or State Assemblyperson who does not publicly commit to co-sponsoring a marriage equality bill if elected should not have a clear path to the Democratic nomination.

It doesn't matter to me if a Democratic challenger loses in November 2007 by 2 points, 10 points, 20 points, or 50 points.  There are very few Republican legislative districts where Democrats have a chance in hell of winning.  At the very least, our sacrificial lambs should be true progressive standard-bearers.

Despite her decision to introduce the civil unions legislation, if Loretta Weinberg is challenged by Ken Zisa or any other Ferriero crony, progressives must make defending her seat their number one electoral priority this spring.

Finally, if Gina Genovese does indeed challenge Tom Kean Jr. for his State Senate seat, every progressive in Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Hunterdon, Morris, Passaic, Somerset, Sussex, Union, and Warren Counties must make helping her win their number one electoral priority.

If we can keep Weinberg for four more years, replace Bryant, Doria, James, Rice Jr., and Sarlo (and maybe Madden and Sweeney as well), with progressive Democrats, and pull off a miracle in the 21st (and maybe the 11th and 14th as well), I think that 21 votes could be found to pass marriage equality in 2008.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that even if the national Democratic establishment balks at the idea of passing marriage equality in a Presidential election year, I think that the state Democratic establishment would prefer to that than wait until the following year when Corzine is running for re-election.

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by: rachael'sdad @ Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 18:14:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]